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Go.
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Mick Coady: Okay, I reminder to everybody that the this means being recorded and i'm using those recordings in the screen capture to document on the storage groups wiki homepage in the link is here.
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Mick Coady: So just kind of disclaimer they're kind of like I mentioned in the email pretty quick.
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Mick Coady: I anticipate this will be a pretty quick meeting today.
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Mick Coady: Now that I've got things hopefully working I do want to apologize to Haiying Xu, the newest member of the group that joined us last month.
I completely forgot to introduce her at last month’s meeting. Haiying is replacing Sherry Michelson on the team. We will miss Sherry but she's has some new responsibilities within CISL and we're very happy and thrilled to have you join us.
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Mick Coady: Again, sorry I missed that opportunity last month.
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Mick Coady: So without moving moving along here pretty quickly.
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Mick Coady: Campaigns storage and I know this is going to be.
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Mick Coady: we're going to talk more about this here in a few minutes as you.
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Mick Coady: might expect currently overall we're in pretty good shape.
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Mick Coady: I spent most of much of my time to sit this morning, trying to reconcile some numbers.
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Mick Coady: And I just got had confirmation from Dave Hart a little bit ago on what some of these numbers mean and we'll talk more about those here in a little bit, but.
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Mick Coady: As you can see the we've still got you know, a nine by the nine petabyte cushion between what's been allocated and what's being used.
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Mick Coady: This month, I tried to capture, you can see the the the increase over last month, both in petabytes and the number of files.
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Mick Coady: You can see that the.
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Mick Coady: slope is holding pretty steady at have to.
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Mick Coady: Put a little bit more of a sharper pencils and see what that rate of increases, but in terms of data storage we're in you know pretty good shape and.
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Mick Coady: it's becoming, as we all know, very popular storage medium for everybody.
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Mick Coady: scratch space, no, no issues there for now, you can see the.
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Mick Coady: Again, as we've talked about before with the I think between our.
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Mick Coady: I think, mostly because of our purge policy right now we're maintaining a very healthy.
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Mick Coady: level percentage of.
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Mick Coady: utilization the available space, remember that when Rachel comes online scratch on with that system will be.
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Mick Coady: let's see Julia roughly four times what we have now people's default quotas will be three times what they are now 30 terabytes and the.
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sandoval: purge policy.
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Mick Coady: The planned purged policy is for will be for 180 days so six months, so we.
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Mick Coady: Of course that'll will need to.
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Mick Coady: we'll be looking at that each month and monitoring it make sure that we maintain a healthy.
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Mick Coady: cushion on there, but we think we've got a pretty pretty good Bead on that.
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Mick Coady: In terms of the campaign storage augmentation not true, it had contacted me in this past month, asking about the be increase and.
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Mick Coady: i've been.
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Mick Coady: Monitoring that I just got this is what I was referring to a few minutes ago, when I said i've heard back from Dave on this, if you remember, and I will apologize if I.
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Mick Coady: For misunderstanding and hopefully not too badly misleading this group, I was expecting I think we were all expecting another bump in allocations, the quotas for each lab but, if you remember, they were increased this past summer.
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Mick Coady: Campaign storage was actually over allocated.
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Mick Coady: And, in anticipation of the augmentation that went online the last month, or like the month before that, so the guess the bottom line is is that the labs have already received their allocation they're bumping allocation for this latest.
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Mick Coady: Increase in the capacity.
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Mick Coady: Campaign storage.
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Mick Coady: For group for for groups and labs that are tight like RAL.
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I.
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Mick Coady: I think we will have something we can talk about now I don't know what the.
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Mick Coady: I don't have any good advice for you right now, like I said, this is all still pretty fresh in my mind.
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Mick Coady: Or, this information is still pretty new to me so i'm still trying to digest it.
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Mick Coady: As you can see here in the numbers, so the current capacity of campaign storage is about 92 petabytes we thought was gonna be joey correct me if i'm wrong there, but I believe that's that's pretty close and Davis, has allocated 85 petabytes of that to between the labs in universities.
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Mick Coady: he's holding seven petabytes back.
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Mick Coady: Because when.
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Mick Coady: The Rachel comes on wine in glade is begins to get begins to be retired.
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Mick Coady: we're going to need we and users are going to need.
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Mick Coady: That space to move what's now i'm glad P two on the campaign storage, which, if you remember right that's where it will live in the duration lifetime so.
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Mick Coady: that's.
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Mick Coady: that's not my not so good news for everybody, I guess it For those of you who were expecting or counting on.
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Mick Coady: More.
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Mick Coady: More capacity so.
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Mick Coady: Any feedback.
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Trude: So, so we are not getting more.
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Mick Coady: Not right now true yeah that's.
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Mick Coady: that's correct yeah so i'm I said I.
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Mick Coady: You in particular, I know I gave wrong information to a few weeks ago.
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Mick Coady: That was based on my misunderstanding and frankly I just forgot about the.
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Mick Coady: The bump that happened this past this past summer and be honest with you, I don't think I was the only one, I think.
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Mick Coady: But i'm the one that's responsible for communicating with with you, with this group and users so.
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Mick Coady: You know, it comes back on me for.
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Mick Coady: not getting the story straight.
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Mick Coady: I.
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Mick Coady: If yeah I know RAL is tighter than anybody the is is tightest of all the labs in terms of your space um.
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Mick Coady: Perhaps you and I Nathan can get together or whoever else within rel in talk about.
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Trude: I think that would be great.
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Trude: yeah even is on right now but i'll talk with them for yeah I think they're.
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Like okay.
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Mick Coady: yeah let me know when.
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Mick Coady: you're available next, I have some time this week next week is going to be pretty tight, for me, because and i'll talk about this more in a minute.
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Mick Coady: Next week of supercomputing conference and much of HP CD will be.
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Mick Coady: Pretty busy with that next week, so when i've got some that's, not to say I won't be i'm totally going to be immersed in that, but.
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Mick Coady: It might be.
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Mick Coady: might be a little harder that's all.
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Trude: Maybe Friday, you can try something.
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Mick Coady: This Friday.
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Mick Coady: yeah you know this Friday afternoon in particular would be Good Friday morning I know it's going to be pretty tight for me okay.
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Trude: yeah yeah i'm just looking at ethan's he is failing message on Friday afternoon.
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Trude: We could make it, we can talk about it in any.
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Trude: Like not.
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Trude: In a week or two or so.
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Mick Coady: Okay okay.
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Mick Coady: Okay yeah thanks.
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Mick Coady: No got that got the date wrong at the bottom of that that slide so.
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Mick Coady: sorry about that so um.
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Mick Coady: i've already mentioned that next week is super computing we're going to be putting out a notice in the daily Bolton.
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Mick Coady: For for all users that.
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Mick Coady: We responses to tickets and problems may be.
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Mick Coady: slower than usual just because of.
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Mick Coady: Attendance either virtually or in person at the conference, but we'll certainly continue to do our best.
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Mick Coady: To get back with people address problems as they come so anything else anybody wants to bring up now any other issues like I said it's been a pretty quiet.
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Mick Coady: Month really in terms of storage issues.
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Mick Coady: I think the.
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Mick Coady: The htc systems that being you know cheyenne and casper have been pretty healthy got a couple bumps in the road as usual PBS but.
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Mick Coady: Jared and his team have been in building them have been doing a great job of keeping that.
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Mick Coady: up and running and addressing issues as they come up pretty quickly so.
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Mick Coady: said, did you have something you wanted to bring up.
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Sidd: I was just curious, since we have limited time trying to understand.
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Sidd: From today.
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Sidd: Which is there any dominant group in adele who is using more artists uniformly everybody needs more you can't provide.
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Mick Coady: purity if you're talking to your you're muted.
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Mick Coady: Sorry.
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Trude: that's okay there's some groups that are using more but they're.
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Trude: Not they're halfway there 40 people and they're using.
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Trude: The system, compared to other lat other groups in route.
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Trude: So I don't know I mean I know we can go and encourage people to be compressed data and then go back over and delete Saito I mean that's something that we need to do.
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Trude: But we are still also group that is doing a lot of high resolution modeling and creating a good amount of and long term modeling so um.
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Trude: But yeah, we need to go back and look at this away.
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Trude: But still, we are tight, I think, even if we're producing go really going through and then move what we don't need, I think we still are.
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Trude: We will still need a lot of.
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Trude: storage.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah if it's okay with you, it like to include duvernay and sit on that conversation, so that, because when i'm you know after January and i'm going.
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Mick Coady: I want some continuity, I think we all do right, so you know, so that we don't things don't get dropped or forgotten, whatever we talked about.
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Trude: uh huh oh yeah yeah okay.
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Mick Coady: Okay.
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Mick Coady: might be a little trickier given that hard, it was just find something for for three of us, you might be more challenged, but we'll figure it out.
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Trude: You know if we just give some time is, this is a short like this week it's a short notice.
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yeah yeah.
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Mick Coady: understood.
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Mick Coady: So anybody else have anything they wanted to bring up.
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Mick Coady: Any problems lots of you know, probably not having space.
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Mick Coady: or any issues that would make sense to bring up today.
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Mick Coady: Okay.
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Mick Coady: Well, I thought, last month, was a record short meeting, but this one kind of blowing that away.
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Mick Coady: i'll be glad to hang on for a while, if anybody says it's something they won't talk, but we're bringing up the just in general.
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Mick Coady: But other than that, I think it probably makes sense, just to let folks go and give you back some time.
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Mick Coady: into your day we're all busy.
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Trude: Okay, thank you.
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Haiying Xu: yeah Thank you.
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Mick Coady: Thank you.
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Mick Coady: Okay we'll see you all again next month.
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sandoval: Okay, thanks.
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Haiying Xu: bye.
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Davide Del Vento: bye bye.
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Mick Coady: Just you and me.
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Mick Coady: again.
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Jared: that's That was my first storage.
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Jared: advisors here.
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Mick Coady: You are good.
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Jared: Well, just added me as a listener right.
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Jared: Okay let's see what what's going on, because.
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Mick Coady: yeah the beast.
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Mick Coady: it's like I said it's just been so quiet.
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Mick Coady: Here mean there's really nothing.
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Mick Coady: Going on storage wise right, I mean the in terms of.
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Mick Coady: New augmentation or you know and Rachel still so far off we don't it doesn't make sense to really talk too much you know.
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Mick Coady: start now more plans and we already have, we spent quite a bit of time in past meetings kind of giving the lowdown on what's going to happen, or what the plans are.
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Mick Coady: But I don't want to repeat I don't think it makes sense to repeat those and frankly that hadn't been for this.
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Mick Coady: This news about campaign storage, I would have been tempted to cancel today's meeting but.
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Mick Coady: I thought i'd better get the word out while I had a chance.
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Jared: and
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Jared: it's interesting how storage works in car, I think.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah well you know, given that it's.
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Mick Coady: In some many people's minds i'm convinced they see that it's free right and and infinite and.
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Mick Coady: guess what's going to happen, you know it's just that's just going to invite not abuse, but sloppiness right people just don't.
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Mick Coady: They just they they're doing what they did with HP SS not everybody, but they're just writing everything out history files and what have you and don't.
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Mick Coady: You just aren't being real careful about the what's what's space they've got so.
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yeah.
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Jared: Well it's, just like the number of people that are doing all the Jupiter hub work and other analysis stuff I mean they're not even using I mean.
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Jared: they're not using scratch, or anything right a lot of them are doing stuff from campaign store and.
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Jared: We knew that was gonna happen right, I mean like yeah so i'm not even any.
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Jared: You don't know what.
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Jared: I think I would have dropped luster off the table at some point, and just built up campaign storm or.
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Jared: hmm I don't know if I see the benefit of last year, at this point.
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Mick Coady: You know I don't either.
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Mick Coady: In we talked about that a few meetings ago here that.
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Mick Coady: I don't remember how it came up, but it was in a conversation with earthen and.
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Mick Coady: Others, and it was you know.
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Mick Coady: There was a slick little light bulb went off in La people said about same time that people are just going to use campaign storage because there's no perch you know now there's do purge on it.
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Mick Coady: And they don't.
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Mick Coady: it's simpler if they keep everything in one place so.
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Jared: I mean data movement is expensive.
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Jared: Yes, like, not just in people time like.
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Jared: But like moving Bytes across the wire, eventually, right after you've already done it just transfer to transfer it actually takes quite a bit and.
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Jared: um you know that's all going to come down running across by frost and stuff so.
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Jared: It I mean.
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Jared: Now optics aren't you know network isn't free and power either like there's little things that go on right.
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Mick Coady: mm hmm.
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Jared: I mean it's probably fractional compared to actually running the.
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Jared: The compute segments, but still playing it's it's just annoying to have to move from one area to the other right.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah.
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Jared: So, and I think that.
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Jared: The other problem is like where.
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Jared: Campaign store is more group based.
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Jared: slash live based.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah.
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Jared: Project crash crash is completely.
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Jared: single like user based.
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Jared: and
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Jared: I think i'd be very tempted to go the other way and say your lab can have X amount of terabytes rather than make it per user.
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Jared: i'm i'm just to kind of facilitate a collaboration in the space, because the scratch doesn't necessarily invite that but.
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Jared: yeah just.
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Jared: As I haven't really kind of understood the whole scratch mechanism based on user at this point anymore, because you have to be part of some project or a.
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Mick Coady: Real else you can't get on.
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Jared: Or you can't run jobs right.
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Jared: So you have to have a group with a somewhat all occasion somewhere.
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Mick Coady: It got somebody floated the idea I don't never came from sizzle the Web members, but could scratch be.
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Mick Coady: divvied up this is luster scratch, could it be divvied up so that let's say half of it was user based in the other half or maybe not 5050 but, and then the other part, be project based right, so that it would match or mirror the.
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Mick Coady: structure of campaign storage.
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Mick Coady: That might be a good way to encourage you, you know if it was that might simplify things a little bit for users, as far as.
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Mick Coady: In projects as far as keeping their data organized because, when one of the things we deal with a lot about a lot but frequently is somebody has a.
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Mick Coady: You know let's say 50 terabytes of scratch space, but they want everyone in their project or in their group to be able to read and write from it, so we go through the whole.
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Mick Coady: access control lists or shame on you know with them to explain how that.
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Mick Coady: What we trying to advise them the best way we can on that, but.
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Mick Coady: If it was already like you were pointing out if it was already set up more on prod by projects, maybe we wouldn't have to do something like that.
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Mick Coady: So.
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Jared: It just seems to invite more collaboration, rather than per user runs I mean if they want, they can generate their own little directory inside of it right.
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Jared: yeah now.
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Jared: It also means that they have to kind of coordinate who's running what but.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah.
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Mick Coady: One of the other things we do you know that comes up and you've helped me.
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Mick Coady: With this in the past, try and figure out, you know what what was going on is we'll set up group accounts right like.
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Mick Coady: This SS FC St account that runs a lot of silk work on cheyenne login notes and stuff that's a group account that's owned you know the younger Richter.
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Mick Coady: Is the kind of lead on that there's other ones to see MIT six.
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Mick Coady: Others.
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Mick Coady: And I know.
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Mick Coady: The security folks don't like those but.
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Jared: Man yes and no all right, I mean its security needs to understand that it's an operational model, not a.
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Jared: At that point, not a research model I guess is.
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Mick Coady: yeah yeah.
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Jared: That I understand it we're going to do operation but it's it's in research roles were like, but if we have something that produces data on a per thing like amps.
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Jared: Right that's operational and there should be it shouldn't be running under one user, so to speak, it should be running under an account.
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Mick Coady: mm hmm.
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Jared: It is a proxy agent for a group to so that we're not you know bus factors.
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Mick Coady: yeah.
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Mick Coady: No, I think amps is the poster child for that.
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Jared: I mean, I guess, I don't mind them it's just like.
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Jared: A they need to be justified, as an operational account not just a because it's easy to work under one.
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Jared: so to speak.
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Mick Coady: Right right just it shouldn't be just for a matter of convenience.
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Mick Coady: Right now.
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Mick Coady: We will well it's kind of.
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Mick Coady: kind of boring but thanks for showing up.
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Jared: i'm sure it'll be more i'd be curious to see what's gonna happen in the.
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Jared: With the tape stuff in the water on.
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Mick Coady: me to.
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Mick Coady: there's.
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Mick Coady: A.
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Mick Coady: I just don't see users and I know.
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Mick Coady: stratos isn't tape based with it kind of feels like it to users, I just don't see the user Community adopting object storage.
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Mick Coady: You know, to the extent that some folks and sizzle believe that they should.
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Jared: Well, I mean people want a traditional file storage medium right so.
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Jared: directory structures, some sort of organizational pattern.
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Jared: Not this put yet operation.
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Mick Coady: So.
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Jared: If they want something like that, but management wants to push that direction, I mean need to encourage tdd or somebody right shim layers so for the users on like yeah.
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Jared: So some implementation on on top of peanut CDF or something that they can use, you know as a back end store or something like that.
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On.
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Jared: I don't think there it's not going to magically go get it by replacing opens and you know reads right with.
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Jared: You know, put get.
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Mick Coady: mm hmm.
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Jared: i'm like it's not the way it works right so.
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Mick Coady: yeah I just think it's too.
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Mick Coady: And I think it's just too big, of a roadblock for most users to want to deal with like you say they.
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Mick Coady: they're comfortable with their they're happy with.
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Mick Coady: Traditional storage systems they understand it their workflows scripts everything are set up for to end their and their applications so.
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Mick Coady: The thing that.
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Mick Coady: People are going to.
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Mick Coady: People around like, for example, who are all soft money funded.
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Mick Coady: To think that they're going to.
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Mick Coady: switch I think it's just not I just don't see it.
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Jared: yeah that's.
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Jared: Now object is very good for web web style stuff right so sharing lens data, and you know running curls and downloads from the Web that's all fantastic but it's a little bit.