01 - Notes from informal discussion with FAA 5 Nov 2014

Someone indicated min wx service may be 70-80% soln. Cameras may be sig benefit in some areas of the country, but not useful in others. So may want to split the GA population and get the bulk first. Then if we can publish and get some pos feedback from the community, that will be helpful. If we can get your initial recommendations. If you are doing this type of flights, this is what you want.

We are under some pressure to produce a product. Next 18 months, come out with our initial recommendations. So don't want to expand our scope beyond what we can do and still get those initial recs published somehow, even on a web site somewhere.

PEGASAS -- ppl provide data or information, but they don't necessarily consider the human element. Just b/c people are getting information doesn't mean a pilot is using it. Airport may switch to IMC conditions, but pilot isn't looking at it. That would be an area where we want to tie up as much as we can in this first release.

What ties a lot of the technology part up is... We today have a line in the sand. If you have the 70% soln this is what you provide. If the technology is an obstacle to providing something, that can become a recommendation. Here are things we are not going into right now, because it's expensive. These are some of the things that need to be resolved, but we are putting them on the shelf for now. There could be some value in showing that a subset is valuable to pilots via a Tech Ctr evaluation.

Bob: Adding more and more data is not the solution to safety here.

Gary: Agreed.

Bob: Our first charter here is to do min wx svc requirements for the masses. Non-Fed stuff we'd need to make a case that it really helps the masses. Not specific to ME or AK or anywhere. The cameras are a little more of a focused group -- one could show that some group (HEMS, AK pilots where there is limited info) would find them very useful. But this doesn't meet the 'masses' test. So what's the highest priority? Probably non-Fed stns.

Gary: Would like to wait a little bit on cameras because there may be potential crown sourcing developments. 

(call dropped)

1 - is info there. 2- is it presented in a way that pilots can use

I think a lot of apps fall short on #2. They are just wx apps that people pull up. Auto zoom in / zoom out. When take off have five VFR airports. 20 mins in, down to one VFR airport. Pilots may not see this unless they look.

Bob: One pc of info that's missing at this point. Storm motion and storm prediction outlines, etc.

Gary: Would like to see it in there if the data is available in a 'for the masses' form. At least for the next Eval.

Animation could be the one topic we take on from Application Capabilities focus area.

Trending etc?

Gary: Yes, but there are new ways not common yet such as drawing more boxes and marking them "stay away". Also the grey areas where you are legal but not within your capabilities - combo of pilot skill and aircraft abilities.

Gary: If I'm flying along and airport at 80 miles goes IMC, that should pop up. Or if the wind shifts at the ground I should know.

Thesholds to let the app know when it should notify you.

Middle path would be to show some trending -- when things are going south. When things are improving.

Bob: METAR example -- 

Not decoded. Would decoding help?

Would indication of update help?

Would indication of increasing/decreasing ceiling help?

Have a mode for in-route that will hide/show information based on what you are doing at the time.

Gary: Recommendations like this *do* fall in the realm of min wx service recommendations. People are using these devices to make real-time decisions. If we can say " if you meet the following min criteria, you will make more effective decisions when using the tool."

Timeline: 

9 months - if we don't have the ncar contract, any work that's part of the current poa, just try to extend that. 3 month extension, etc. Original scope you guys gave me was supposed to carry us through late summer (2016). By then we hopefully have a real contract. We haven't even finished phase 1 of the eval, so wrapping up in 9 months is unrealistic. Phase 2 begins with real contract summer '16.

Bob: I'm not sure we can work through all the DSS issues.

Gary: Absolutely. We want to get the big hitters -- stuff that really matters. 

Bob: We may want to make a strong case that DS is important.

Gary: I think we have support for that. People recognize that.

Bob: So we can jump in and start to work on some of the specific DS issues.

Gary: Yes. Some of this comes out of PEGASAS. I'm in flight and I need a wx update. What steps should I take to get that? Final report should be out at the end of the year. Should give you a good idea of specific gaps. 

Some of these METAR things are a gap -- colors are changing and ppl are not noticing the changes.

What also struck me was the pro GA has some sort of AOC operational guides, they have much lower rate of accidents. Even NTSB didn't give any justification. What is it that goes into that group decision-making process. They are under a lot of pressure to deliver their millionaires to their meetings.

Could be that the aircraft are more capable. And pro pilots are more experieinced.

Having someone on the ground who can keep an eyes on things is a surrogate for the DSS that we are proposing on the mobile device. Having the extra brain and spare cycles goes a long way.

Gary: Maybe these apps don't have the ability to do what someone on the ground can do.

Bob: Alerting, trends

Building on what we have, this VFR flight into IMC makes a lot of sense because of the foundation we've built already with the app Route View, etc.

Bob: What's tough with IMC, other than the airport, data not well available at your flight level.

Next meeting week before Thanksgiving. 19 or 20.